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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 5, 2006 2:30:30 GMT -5
It seems more than coincidental that the ransom note, and for CAL's consulting sceances to find Charlie. Was Charlie just another victem of Wierd New Jersey, or was there some sinister occult connection?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 5, 2006 10:38:50 GMT -5
Rita/ it really is a bit interesting that CALs search for Charlie included both a seance in Princeton Junction AND Edgar Cayce.
The seance in Princeton was intiated by a telegram from Peter Biratella that Mary had "seen" Charlie in a dream state. Actually, Joe Dunninger claims that Mary and Peter had overheard certain information from the attenders of the Temple of Divine Power. Peter and mary were cons and must have had some system set up of eavesdrop on thier attenders when they least expected? One of Marys most perplexing readings said that Charlie was dead before he was found. Common sense would tell all the most stubborn that a kidnap gang was not ggoing to risk babysitting a 2 year olde for 30 days. But .....Mary was also right about Breckenbridge, and the JFC letters. Mary and Peter may have been scared off the case when the Mobsters Rosner and Madden drove tham around Hopewell searching for the farmhouse? Mary Cerrita could never invoke the spirit world without first hearing a rumor. Did Viollet Sharpe and Ollie Whateley know that Charlie was dead??
On the flip side/ CAL and Anne sent someone to get many readings from Edgar Cayce. All started out with Charlie going to New Haven Connecticutt--even down to the house and street #! Of course, the perfect person to fill this bill was Red Johnson who headed out for West Hartford the exact nite of the snatch. He was deported in short order to Sweden or Norway cutting off all access to his information? Cemetary John "told" Condon that Red and Betty were innocent? How absurd is that? Anyways, Edgar Cayce, unlike Cemetary John, implicated both Red Johnson and Betty Gow and stated that Charlie was "sick".
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Post by kathy for rick on Apr 5, 2006 17:54:33 GMT -5
cayce was phenomenal with his predictions and Bertello & co. certainly knew alot the players
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 6, 2006 0:06:57 GMT -5
CJ was certaily a good reference for Red and Betty. Do you suppose the Wierd New Jersey Police actualy gave them a clean slate from his character reference? Have you noticed this case is almost funny as a result of how many times the police look the other way?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 6, 2006 5:51:56 GMT -5
Rita/ everyones fate rests totally with CAL playing the Wizard of Oz and pulling all the strings from behind the curtains where noone can see.
If CAL wants Betty and Red to be given a free pass....he tells Shawartzy, Condon, Walsh, etc. CAL is the original control freak. If CAL wants no interivews, well, then he will shoot you if you disobey. The hoax is in place.
Its absurd that CJ, if there is one, even knows Betty and Red. If he does, then whats his big moral concern or dilemma about them anyways. No wonder it takes Condon and CJ an hour or more to work out all these details:
1. Baby is alive and well? Noone needs to burn. Sure--Do You Believe That? 2. The pins are from the crib? 3. The ransom note was in the crib? 4. Betty and REd are innosent. 5. On and on like summer theater. 6. This is more like a love-in than a ransom negotiation. 7. Did Jafsie tell CJ he would be tested on what he told him next time like student?
CAL protects his inner circle of inside help. But Violet Sharpe is thrown to the wolves and has to die. She knows a little but cant be trusted with the whole truth.
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Post by kathy for rick on Apr 6, 2006 8:45:27 GMT -5
those are great observations rick. also remember that the "gang", according to CJ, felt condon was magnificent in his dealings with them. sounds like old jafsie found someone else that thought as much of him as he did of himself! NOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?
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Post by carol on Apr 6, 2006 13:40:39 GMT -5
CJ is Cemetery John, the man Jafsie paid the $50,000 ransom to. I prefer to think of him as Izzy Fisch, con man.
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anne50
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by anne50 on Apr 6, 2006 16:03:59 GMT -5
Hi, Carol. I bet CJ is "Izzy" Fisch. Our old Izzard was quite versatile and agile. Ana or anne50
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 6, 2006 20:20:24 GMT -5
It's mind boggeling that Condon could meet with the kidnapper for an hour. Has there ever been another case in history of such a meeting? More than just the money and return of the child had to be discussed. In that time period why wasn't communicating with the child discussed, and wasn't there a phone at the discussion?
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Post by carol on Apr 6, 2006 21:58:58 GMT -5
It's much less puzzling if you begin to understand that Condon and CJ (Fisch) were both involved in the crime and that Condon probably made up every word of their alleged discussion. What I've never understood is why Lindbergh didn't ask for any more proof that his son was alive than that sleeping suit, which was no proof at all.
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 7, 2006 1:26:26 GMT -5
To Carol My psychology training tells me he played his part (kidnap Dad) wrong, and were not emotions and reactions of the father of a kidnapped child. Not reading the ransom note for two hours, and no demand for voice communication prove a different story.
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Post by rick62private i on Apr 7, 2006 7:13:20 GMT -5
Yes, it is far more likely that Fisch was the imaginary CJ than BRH. But it is also likely that Condon knew Fisch ahead of the crime from attending the mystical Church. Was Condon so brain dead as to describe CJ as someone he knew? That is not a particularly brilliant idea unless you are senile or dont understand how criminals get caught? Maybe Fisch was the first patsy in the LKC but he was too smart and avoided detection while laundering the ransom money in 1933. Lets revisit the holes punched in the ransom notes. These holes make it impossible to photocopy the signature. BUT why do you have to worry about copying if you have "the real deal" eg Charlie Jr. Dont these "overthought" punched holes prove the Hoax? The imaginary Bronx blackmail gang knew for certain right from Tuesday March 1st that they could not prove to anyone that they had Charlie in any way shape or form. Therefore, to get the dough-re-me they needed a Mark on the Nursery Note that could not be reproduced? So--why place the Nursery Note in the crib if you dont have Charlie anyways? So--where is Charlie and is he alive and well?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 8, 2006 21:13:11 GMT -5
it seems that CAL or Anne made the ransom note, then went to lawyers and racketeers to get advice on how to follow through. Didn't Breckenridge give the note to Rosner to distribute to criminals? What an unbelievable kidnap story that is, and I do believe only VD'rs would believe such a story.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 9, 2006 7:29:17 GMT -5
Rita/ I found another Occult Connection in this case: Dr. Alexis Carrell/
Berg reports that Carrel.."was dedicated to both enlightenment and occult, a scholar who accepted both science and powers unknown"? Oh yes, Carrell was a devout Roman Catholic?
1. Would Carrell have known about the Vesica Pisces symbol on the notes? Maybe the notes are a combined effort of CAL/AC? you do the holes/ Ill do the symbol? 2. Would Carrells views have promted CAL to get involved with mysticism? And send Violet and Ollie to the occult Temple in the Bronx. 3. How does all this square up with Breckenridges visitor: educated intellegent, jewish student. It occured the same time BRK recieved the only ransom note sent to him on 8th March 32: "The needs of science must be put over human life--you must deal with us" [Gardner page 408] Breckenridge later said "he looked just like Fisch"?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 11, 2006 16:11:57 GMT -5
I think Rick uses that short for Breckenridge.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 12, 2006 3:40:20 GMT -5
Yes, yes and yes. This string alone proves the kidnap hoax. CAL is so busy playing Colonel Klink that he forgets that Charlies life, if still viable, is at stake. CAL gets all wrapped up in the mechanics of commanding all the troops. Neither the vesica piscis or the Sleeping Suite proves anything about Charlie. Where he is or is he alive and well? Maybe Condon kept CJ on the hook no matter how negative and despondent he was--simple so Condon could stay in the hunt and later in the limelight. It would have been a no brainer that CJ could not prove Charlies health. but according to our genius go-between all Condon ever proposed was "seeing the goods in person". this was always a "red herring" that was never going to happen. Who was conned? CAL by Condon or all of us by them? And last, the Freemasons are heavily into the occult. Most of thier rituals and symbols are based on Sacred Geometry and tools, just like the singnature.
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 13, 2006 1:58:03 GMT -5
There is a Eugenics connection between Nazi Germany and the U. S. Gov. It may have played a part in the kidnap Hoax, and I believe I am right about Carrel and Nazi buddies being repatriated into the U. S.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 20, 2006 6:13:30 GMT -5
Rita/ there is even a simpler connection between the occult and the kidnapping and that is thru the Freemasons and thier occult death rituals. Wouldnt it be a stich if Jafsie the Don of Cons is also a mason? And Curtis and Means. There it is/ check and mason.
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Post by Rita Witt on Jul 22, 2006 0:27:16 GMT -5
I read tha Governer Haufman was a Mason also. I wonder if they had a procession to the chair?
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