kathy
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by kathy on Mar 28, 2006 10:17:19 GMT -5
If this were Michael's board, I'd make this a poll, but here I'll just ask: What was Condon's biggest lie?
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Post by rick62 on Mar 30, 2006 0:53:00 GMT -5
That BRH was Cemetary John! This effectively got BRH executed. JFC had already denied this a number of times. He may have known BRH and may have known he was periferally involved--but AG The Snake Wilintz threatened Condon with immediate arrest and he buckled like a wet noodle. For this huge lie, CAL provided absolution.
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Post by rick61 on Mar 31, 2006 8:53:09 GMT -5
We all need to review the bizarre manner that Condon interjected himself as the Go Between. Keeping in mind that Mary Cerrita knew the initials JFC at the seance in Princeton Junction on Sunday March 6th before anyone else had heard of jafsie? Or at least said she did after the fact? Gaston Means was called by EWM/ Curtis did not volunteer either, but was contacted. Only John Condon put himself forward thru the ad in the Bronx Home News.
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kathy
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by kathy on Mar 31, 2006 9:31:06 GMT -5
your wit and intelligence make me hope i can make it to 62 (i'm not that far behind) anyway, I agree about Condon, his lies make Hauptmann look like a saint if we look at him closely he becomes more and more weird and unbeliveable. the moring at hopewell (after pilfering charlie's toys) he just had that name and what would make him think the kidnappers would recognize it? He love using psedonyms in his letters to the editor so why not just use his initals? He had the name before that morning i think. also if the nursery were dark how would the kdnappers recognize those pins? They weren't removed or disturbed or re-positoned.
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 6, 2006 23:53:39 GMT -5
To Kathy The pins are the most revealing item that stageing had ocurred . If CAL was home that afternoon making arangements for Keyhoe to transport Charlie somewhere, he wouldn't have supervised the clean up thereby missing the fact pins were placed by Betty or Anne. I cannot understand how CAL explained or avoided questioning on the pins set for a new day?
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Post by rick62PI on Apr 9, 2006 22:25:18 GMT -5
I think it took over one hour for JFC to explain the pins to CJ who had never been to Highfields or inside the nursery. I think JFC staying in the Nursery was just to familiarize himself with the setup so he could verify things with himself in the Cemetaries? "now John, you remember these pins"? CJ--"what pins"? Now John, you remember the ransom note? CJ--what note? jafsie--"Is the baby alive and well"? Cj--"will I burn if the baby is dead"? Jafsie--"No, the baby is alive and well, OK?"
To believe Condon is akin to beliveing in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and Lepre-cons!
We should all recall that Mary Cerrita and Peter Biratella fully intended to do exactly the same thing on Saturday March 6th but Breck and Rosner didnt let them go to Highfields. Likely Condon, who knew them already, was the backup plan and they were all one big happy extortion family. Until they found out it was Murder One/
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Post by rick62 on Apr 17, 2006 16:56:14 GMT -5
Eads: There were many characters in the kidnapping story, and there were a number of people who offered to pay the ransom. Dr. John Condon was one of them. Nobody could figure out exactly why he wanted to pay the ransom, except maybe publicity or something. He lived in the Bronx or someplace outside of New York, or Brooklyn. Reporters around the clock were watching that house where he lived. He lived alone, but he had a great big guard with him who drove a car. It was a young man, sort of a personal guard, because I guess there were threats and everything. He was very irrational. He would open the upper-story window of his house and do something with a flag, a white flag or something. Then once in a while he'd get in a car and drive off someplace with this man.
When they sent me on the story, they said, "Follow him." Well, if you're covering a person in any capacity in a news story, you stick with them, wherever they go. I didn't know many of these other reporters. They were sitting on the curbstone out there. They had their own cars, a number of them, but they didn't invite me to come with them when they started following him. There was a cab somewhere near, and I grabbed the cab. I said to him to follow him. I didn't want to go alone, so there was some young photographer, or he might have been a reporter, but not with any big paper, and he went with me. He had nothing to do, and he didn't take any notes. But we followed Jafsie, and every once in a while, and once or twice he got out of the car and we'd start following him, and it would be nature calling. [Laughter.] Then this guy would turn around to lose us. We went through a little town, and I think we got up as far as Connecticut. He went through a stop light, and we went through, too, and we got stopped.
I called the office. I got out of the car, called the office, and AP sent a bulletin to all newspapers. I said, "Jafsie didn't get arrested, I did!" We didn't really get arrested, but we were admonished.
Anyway, we got up as far as Connecticut. That's quite a distance for an assignment.
Currie: In a taxi, too!
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Post by rick62country PI on Apr 18, 2006 3:17:00 GMT -5
I want to add a Postscript to the Jafsie story above. And thank Sue Campbell for finding it too. Jane Eads Bankcroft was a reporter for Hearst News. She covered all kinds of fascinating stories. Her lengthy interviews with Currie can be found on this link: www.press.org/wpforsl/eadsint.htmHer tracking of Condon to Connecticut is on pages 61-62 of the interview. This interesting event occured at the hieght of Condons popularity and before there were any suspects like BRH. My question is "What was Condon doing in Connecticut?" It seems like everyways you turn in the LKC, all roads lead to CT: 1. Red Johnson drives to West Hartford on 1 March '32? 2. Edgar Cayce says Charlie is being held in New Haven in March '32? 3. Fisch goes to Norwalk in March '32 4. The sleeping suite is mailed from Stamford to JFC in March '32? 5. The Morrow summer home sounds like CT, but North Haven is an island off the coast of Maine. 6. And now Condon, wish we had a more exact date. But Im thinking March of '32? Wouldnt CAL and the Morrows first think to hide Charlie on North Haven?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 18, 2006 16:52:05 GMT -5
there is at least one more wierd link to Connecticut: Hugh M. Alcorn--attorney There was the "Connecticut angle of the Lindbergh kidnapping case in 1933". There were quack doctors, stock swindlers and the longest criminal trial in Connecticut Court history. That was the Waterbury conspiracy case when Alcorn prosecuted Frank Hayes who was then Lieutenant Governor of Connecticut and Mayor of Waterbury at the same time. Hayes and his gang took over three and a half million dollars in graft out of the city in a two-year period. www.suffield-library.org/localhistory/alcorn.htmWhat pray tell is the Connecticut angel?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 19, 2006 14:52:09 GMT -5
heres yet another link to Con-necticut: NYTimes April 12 1932/ Woman With Ransom Money Flees!offers $20 note in Greenwich bakery shop, snatches it back when serial number is detected.Recognition of the bill, bearing serial number KB 03387539A failed to result in arrest for the "smartly dressed, middle aged woman" who proffered it to a shaarp=eyed Connecticut shopkeeper pulled it back and fled at the first sighn of suspiscion./ In the exact same article: Condon on Mysterious MissionJFC heads out burdened with two heavy suitscases and a satchel. Was this the ransom money? Exact date not reported? We still believe the baby is "alive and well" says Harry Walsh Plice Det from Jersey City? Also, Rev Dobson Peathingy declared that he hoped Charlie would soon be returned, and that he too had been negotiating with the actual kidnappers with multimillionaire John c. Curtis boatbuilder. What are the chances that Curtis is also a Freemason? Also reported, Sylvian Ortleib has been cleared of suspicion
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Post by rick62country fool on Apr 19, 2006 19:02:12 GMT -5
Hey ladies/ I know you will like this one? REV Dobson PeaC-O-C-K was transliated by the website Puritans as Peathingy/ no lie...I would not lie.
Guess we have to change the charaters of CL:UE as well huh?
Mr. Green/ Miss Scarlet/ Mrs. Peathingy
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Post by elyssa on Apr 29, 2006 12:11:45 GMT -5
john f condon-cemetery john - are they one and the same? Maybe jafsie was talking about himself when he spoke of cemetery john. could be that's who lindbergh named his second son after. It would make sense, that lindbergh wanted to pay tribute to the man who saved his a--...
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Post by rick62 on Apr 29, 2006 15:49:54 GMT -5
Elyssa/ I have a different answer for the same question. First, Condon says that CJ says he is a Scandanavian sailor and everyone tends to think of Red Johnson. But, Red gets arrested and he isnt the only Scandanavian Sailor in towne. At the very least--Red has many friends from Lamonts yacht.
BUT, Curtis the millionaire boat buider sstarts following his own gang. And what do you know....one is named John and otheres aere named Lars and Larsen...well more Norsky names.? Whats with that? Curtis even meets them face to face in Newark NJ and Cape May NJ? He even meets one wife? But this all blows up in his face when Charlie (?) is discovererd on Mt. rose Hill? Curtis was told that Chaarlie was on a boat out in the ocean somewhere off Norfolk VA?
here again we have the "Aristocrat Kidnapping Go-between" Curtis....makeing up crazy stories with no proof of purchase. But his gang is related (shirttail relatives) to Condons tales.
So who is the puppet master behind the scenes? there is clearly a common thread between Gaston Means/ Curtis and Condon yet Charlie never appears.....surely not alive and well.
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Post by rick62 on May 3, 2006 15:50:14 GMT -5
Condon Deals Anew With Kidnappers and Reassures Them--NY times April 13th 1932:
Returning from Mysterious Trip, He Declares They have nothing to fear from him/ Hints He Knows the Criminals "Token" Identified Gang--Note Given for Cash Said Women Had Baby Abourd Yacht/
Dr. John F. Condon said last night that he was still in contact with the kidnappers of Col. CALs infant son and he hinted that he had at least a suspicion regarding thier identity.
The 72 year olde teacher "the innocent dupe" of the criminals who swindled CAL out of $50,000 ransom after stealing the 21 month olde baby, made it clear: "the gang has nothing to fear from me"!
Double duplicity feared: It was supported too, by a growing conviction tha the kidnappers as well as the babys father were double-crossed by the mysterious individual who revieved the $50,000 in currentcy from the hands of Dr. Condon the nite of 2 April in St. Raymonds Cemetery.
While it bacame apparent the Col CAL and his advisers are convinced that Dr. Condon holds the key to the mystery, the possiblity was suggested that the kidnappers might have been carrlying on negotiations in two places at once? The Rev. H. Dobson Peakock asseerted in Norfolk VA that nothing had happened to shake his Faith in the contact established by John H. Curtis. This in spite of the positive identification was arraraged and this did NOT involve any of the babys clothing. Prior to the actual payment, it was disclosed, CAL made several calls to Condons home, being shown on one such occasion "a token" which so impressed him with the authenticity of the claim of the kinappers that they had his child that he to it home to show Anne. What thie "token" was the police continied to refuse to disclose.
Could this token have been the thumb guard??
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kathy
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by kathy on May 3, 2006 23:05:03 GMT -5
What did become of the other thumbguard? Anne wondered about the diapers and rubber pants. Did any of the investigators at the time think to ask Jafsie what that was?
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Post by rick62 on May 4, 2006 16:48:07 GMT -5
How could anyone even hope to get a straight answer from JFC?
Heres a good one, the names have not been changed to protect anyone. Even the NYTimes and Schwartzkopf had trouble keeping track of the adventures of Condon and then a some finite point Curtis "gets into the act" as well. At one point in the combined adventures the two stories get mixed up.
Condon is thought to have gone to Long Island out onto some boat and met 5 of the kidnappers. Doc, John, Lars, Neils, Hilda and Inez? Now just think about that story for a moment....
Later on, Breckenridge says he is going to Condons house in the Bronx to meet with the Doc? Then it hits me like a ton of bricks.
Dr. John F. Condon meets the kidnappers named Doc and John!
Do You Believe That? Who is writing this script--Laurel and Hardy?
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Post by ton of bricks on May 4, 2006 19:25:45 GMT -5
its almost too obvious isn't it?
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Post by Rita Witt on May 5, 2006 2:22:27 GMT -5
They seem to be describing their own advetures. Criminals have a need to bragbout what they have done.
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Post by rick62 on May 5, 2006 9:49:40 GMT -5
Here is a huge LIE that Condon neatly traps hisself in:
The Wooden Ransom Box and Frank Samuelson Caper
Condon and or Breckenridge come up together with this brilliant notion that CJ...alias Condon John....wants the money in a wooden box. Not a "neat package" but a "wooden box"??
Condon lies and says he is building one out of five wood types so rare that it will be spotted immediately forever? Yes, and also by CJ at St. Raymonds?
He then lies outright as to the cabinet maker who fabricates this box. Later, Frank Samuelson recognizes Jafsie in the papers and turns him in for ordering a plain olde plywood box from him for $3 bucks? In addition, Samuelson claims to recognize certain parts of the ladder as ordered by...well, it gets complicated then...BRH? And then picked up by some other men?
Condon ultimately throws the $50,000 over a hedge at St. Raymonds to "someone" and then throws the wooden box into a bush to be picked back up later on?
Its harder to catch Condon in the truth than in a lie?
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kathy
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by kathy on Jun 5, 2006 8:11:54 GMT -5
so much is taken for granted for so long!
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Post by rick62 on Jun 5, 2006 10:25:24 GMT -5
Hi Kathy/ Welcome Back, alot of water has flowed under the d**n LKC since you been gone?
Firstly, the cabinet makers name turns out to be Abraham Samuelsohn and not Frank. Just some sort of typo or dyslexia on the part of Gardner--a combination of Frank Peremi and AS? this only helped to bury the incidents for 75 years.
Samuelsohns oldest granddaughter waded into the Swamp over on MMs Board....but soon found herself up to her pitou in alligators and other predators. I'm going to type "ass" here to see what the computer ass-isted translation is/
Just as soon as Jafsie Condon gets involved with AS the whole story morphs into half-truths and innuendos. Kevcon even calls it a "red herring". Maybe cooked up by Wilintz to back up the other liers. A rather lenghtly timeline has been posted on the MM Board.
Recent views of Condon include: coverup of hoax/accident, confusing the cops (for what reason not stated), and him being too crazy with socalled idiosynchronies to recover a kidnapped baby? Remeber that right off the bat Mary Ceritta says "Charlie is dead".
I dont think that CAL and Anne would be congratulating this side show phoney "UNLESS HIS MANY LIES , WILD GOOSE CHASES AND TALL TALES" were purposely designed to lead everyone away from the Truth? Thus, protecting the actual perpetrators of the accidental death or kidnap hoax/practiCAL joke?
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Post by rick3 skeptic 5 on Nov 27, 2006 5:33:03 GMT -5
Does anyone have photos of the two postcards sent from Newark and Connectitcut to Mr. Lindberg? aka Red Johnson?
We have one additional candidate for "Trips to Connecticut". Ernie Brinkert and his second wife Mary claim to have quit thier jobs on March 1st 1932 so as to go visit close friends in Bridgeport CT!
Trouble is thier friends Frank Page and wife first say they showed up the nite of March 2nd? But Violet is long dead before they are found?
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