kathy
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Post by kathy on Mar 28, 2006 8:05:16 GMT -5
I wasn't sure where to put this but I'll start here. I think we ned to look at Red as a key to inside involvedment and his hurried departure from the US. He was an"intimate friend" of Marguerite Junge, nee Jantzen. They lived in the same rooming house as Ellerson and saw each other socially with servants of the Morrow/Lindbergh households. This is a very small time frame as RED only was in Englewood from the fall of 1931 to the time of the kidnapping in March of 32. Unemployed at that. Ellerson reportedly moved around quite a bit and had a wife and children somewhere. Marquerite was employed as a dressmaker and seamstress for the Morrows under the name of Jantzen (although married for 11 years to German newly arrived in the Us) until she was fired for theft. MR. and Mrs. Junge were RED's alibi for Tues night. They had been "riding around" on that gorgeous evening. Anyway, the note on the table sounds llike a description of Marquerite and she was of German descent but not born there (from a wealthy HAMBURG family that had lost its money) Her husband was from germany and recently arrived and also unemployed. Who better than a seamstress and dressmaker to note that in Germany I wore velvet and silk. How was RED living with no work? What did he and Olie discuss on their trip into the woods around Highfields? What emotions did Betty experience when she was left alone in Maine with just the cook and had to buy C;harlies clothing from her meager salary?
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rick61 until Friday
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Post by rick61 until Friday on Mar 28, 2006 12:45:47 GMT -5
Not only did Red not have a job at the time, since sailors dont work much in Englewood, he too had his own car. this is amazing! As stated before only 20% of all Americans could own a car during the Depression. When employed, during the sailing season, Red worked for Lamont on some sailing ship. I find the references to boats/ boads and Gays head and Marthas vineyard a direct connection to a sailor like Red. After all, the Blackmailers in the Bronx drove cars if they had one. Also, both Edgar Cayce and Mary Cerrita "saw" Charlie Jr up in Connecticut during readings or seances. Who but Red drove up to East Haven to his brotheres on the nite of the kidnapping. I always imagined it was possible for Red to sell or turn over Charlie to others when he got to New Haven? Possible is a long ways from Proof. Lastly, why was Red wisked away to Denmark or whereever so qucikly never to see Betty Gow again. She died an olde Maid.
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Post by kathy1 on Mar 28, 2006 14:23:40 GMT -5
I don't think Betty liked the "colonel" very much; she refered to him as sadisticand didn't trust him. she was emotionally dependent on Red. She had no family in the US and was very isolated. Red became good friends with the Morrow servants and knew Olly well enough to have complete tours of the hopewell house and even walked the grounds with him to scout out where the telephone lines were buried (Hertog's book) on Valentine's DAy that year. Sounds like maybe they were firming up plans? Red had been unemployed for about 6months at that point.
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rick61 until Friday
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Post by rick61 until Friday on Mar 28, 2006 16:59:59 GMT -5
Red Johnson is one key to the Connecticut Connection. Fisch went to Connecticut to a rooming house/ Condon out paced a nosey reporter and lost her in Connecticutt: Sue for Rick Jane Eads Bancroft Interview Sun Feb 19, 2006 21:15 209.139.109.82 npc.press.org/wpforal/eads3.htm(See pages 61-63 in upper left hand corner.) Currie: You did some coverage of the Bruno Hauptman trial.* Eads: That was right after we got back from Paris, and we were going through this process. We hadn't really gotten a divorce yet. We were talking about it. We weren't on the best of terms, but we were still living in the same apartment. Then I went to Trenton, New Jersey. Hauptman got a reprieve. I don't think you remember that. He was sentenced, and then he got a reprieve, and that's when I was there. There were a lot of reporters there. Damon Runyon was one. I remember one night there was only another woman there that I saw, and I didn't go into the courtroom, but the word came out. I was with Mrs. Hauptman. I'd interviewed her before that a couple of times, because she was in the same hotel we were. She was waiting for her son, a little boy. I didn't see him. She was very happy and cried a lot, too, when they got the reprieve, but it didn't hold up. He finally was sentenced. Currie: Was this a re-trial that you were covering? Eads: I don't remember. I was only there less than a week. Currie: There's a funny story in one article that you gave me to read. I guess you covered that for Universal Service. There's a funny story in one profile of you about how whoever assigned you to this story said, "Follow Jafsie." Who's Jafsie? Eads: There were many characters in the kidnapping story, and there were a number of people who offered to pay the ransom. He was one of them. Nobody could figure out exactly why he wanted to pay the ransom, except maybe publicity or something. He lived in the Bronx or someplace outside of New York, or Brooklyn. Reporters around the clock were watching that house where he lived. He lived alone, but he had a great big guard with him who drove a car. It was a young man, sort of a personal guard, because I guess there were threats and everything. He was very irrational. He would open the upper-story window of his house and do something with a flag, a white flag or something. Then once in a while he'd get in a car and drive off someplace with this man. When they sent me on the story, they said, "Follow him." Well, if you're covering a person in any capacity in a news story, you stick with them, wherever they go. I didn't know many of these other reporters. They were sitting on the curbstone out there. They had their own cars, a number of them, but they didn't invite me to come with them when they started following him. There was a cab somewhere near, and I grabbed the cab. I said to him to follow him. I didn't want to go alone, so there was some young photographer, or he might have been a reporter, but not with any big paper, and he went with me. He had nothing to do, and he didn't take any notes. But we followed Jafsie, and every once in a while, and once or twice he got out of the car and we'd start following him, and it would be nature calling. [Laughter.] Then this guy would turn around to lose us. We went through a little town, and I think we got up as far as Connecticut. He went through a stop light, and we went through, too, and we got stopped. I called the office. I got out of the car, called the office, and AP sent a bulletin to all newspapers. I said, "Jafsie didn't get arrested, I did!" We didn't really get arrested, but we were admonished. Anyway, we got up as far as Connecticut. That's quite a distance for an assignment. Currie: In a taxi, too! ______________________ * Bruno Hauptman was accused of kidnapping the son of Charles and Anne Morrow Lindbergh. Page 61 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 62 Eads: Yes. I had an expense account. So when I got back, they laughed. We got the expense account money, and my particular boss, my city editor, was a wonderful guy. Currie: Who was your city editor? Eads: Bill Chaplin was one of them. He okayed the expense account. We got the money and we went out and spent it on thingytails. Currie: You and the photographer? Eads: There were several of us. We gathered up several other people who wanted to get in on it. Of course, I think it came out of my money, anyway, in the end. Currie: What kind of bulletin did they put out over the AP wire? Eads: They do that all the time. That's a common practice, whenever there's a development in any big story. Currie: They put a bulletin saying what? Eads: Jafsie was the leading character at that moment in the Lindbergh kidnapping story. They hadn't found the kidnapper yet. They didn't have Bruno Hauptman. Currie: This is before they captured Bruno Hauptman. Eads: Oh, yes. This was before they had any suspect, really. Currie: I see. So they put out a bulletin saying he was in Connecticut? Eads: I don't know what they said. They just said that he was arrested. Currie: So they got it wrong; they said that Jafsie was arrested. Eads: Yes. They were talking about it on the phone. They said, "We've just put out a bulletin." I said, "Oh, my God! Jafsie wasn't arrested; I was!" So they had to send another bulletin out to the newspapers all over the country, telling them it was a mistake. Currie: That's funny. Did you stick with Jafsie for the duration? Eads: No, I think he faded out of the picture. I don't know exactly what did happen to him. I think they found out he didn't really have anything to do with paying the ransom or anything. But I think even Mrs. Evalyn Walsh McLean offered to pay part of the ransom, or the whole ransom. Some very wealthy person in Washington also. There are all kinds of people, a lot of crazies that got mixed up in this story, and suspects. They were frantic, trying to find out, or to even find the child alive. Currie: On a story like that, what would newspapers do? Would they try to find suspects, too? Eads: Imagine the story. If I had gone out and gotten the kidnapper, my God! All over the world! But I don't know whether they did or not. They had a lot of reporters on that story covering all kinds of angles on it. There were many different angles on the story. Currie: Then you covered the later re-trial? Page 62 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 63 Eads: Maybe it tells in that story. Currie: This must have been the big story of the day. Eads: It was the Lindbergh kidnapping. It wasn't the Hauptman story; it was the Lindbergh kidnapping. Hauptman was the suspect. They had other suspects, too, but they weren't taken into custody. I don't know who they were. They were desperately trying to find the child alive. You see, I was gone in Europe. This was two years after the kidnapping. Jafsie was right at the time of the kidnapping, before the child was found. I worked on the Lindbergh kidnapping before I went to Europe. I went to Europe, and I didn't come back for a couple of years. When I came back, they had finally found the body of the little boy. This was Hauptman. They got him and found proof that he was the kidnapper. A lot of people still don't agree that he did it. They think he might have not. Currie: What do you think? Eads: I think he did it. Of course, you never know. Currie: What did you think when you interviewed his wife? Eads: I sympathized with her. Her theory was that this little child had the name of his father. She wanted to change his name so he wouldn't be known as "that little boy." I don't know what's happened to him. He probably did change his name, because I've never heard anything. That was just a couple of weeks, and then I left and went to Washington. Currie: It was an exciting couple of weeks. Eads: Yes. Currie: You said there was only one other woman who covered that during that couple of weeks. Eads: No, I didn't cover Hauptman in a couple of weeks. I was only there for about three days for that hearing. It was really a hearing. He got a reprieve of several days, like today murderers get reprieves. He got a reprieve, and that's all that was. That was not immediately connected with the kidnapping. Currie: The kidnapping occurred earlier, but then you came back later. Eads: The kidnapping came before I went to Europe. Then I came back and I was in New York for a few months, almost a year, I think, before I went to Washington. I went to Washington two different times, and that's what's confusing for you. rick from Ronells Hoax Board/
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Post by rick62 on Feb 17, 2007 13:28:42 GMT -5
I think we should all take a closer look at the lovebirds Betty and Red...they were so used to dating on weekday nites I keep on wondering if they didnt go out on a last minute date at Highfields on March 1st 1932 while Charlie Jr. was sleeping? Red had bought a Green Chysler Coupe just a few weeks before the snatch on the salary of an unemployed sailor? Howd he do that? Maybe a 1924 Chysler. Many green sedans etc were seen around the Sorrel Mountians that nite so horny Red could have been one of them? Highfields and Next Day are only one hour apart? Betty and Red become the Primary Suspects/ BUT LATER ON ARE EXONERATED BY NONE OTHER THAN CEMETARY JOHN HIMSELF TO JAFSIE! aND SUCH A COMPASSIONATE KIDNAPPER TOO. dybt?
I recently read (Red) that Margarite Junge recanted her original alibi for Red.....maybe in the NYTimes or in Susan Hertogs: Anne Morrow? nevertheless...Red's alibi was razor thin and only after two tries (movies and left for North HARTFORD) did he get an alibi from Margarite and Johannes in the first place. Why was Red deported to Norway when he was not in any trouble before Charlie Jrs disappearance? It would have been a piece of cake for Red to drive down to Highfields--maybe Red and Betty took Charlie Jr out for a ride in his car and he fell out along the Mt. Rose Hopewell Highway? If Betty was gone out on a date--this would create the perfect opening for a kidnap?
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Post by Rita Witt on Feb 17, 2007 16:08:24 GMT -5
Hi Rick You figured another possible angle on the case, and is with the two most shady of the many shady characters the Morrow's and Lindbergh's hired. It is unusual that these two families hired people with bad connections to care for their children. The Ford Motor private detective that made the police report on Scotty Gow and Bette Gow had some theory of Scotty useing Bette in the kidnap, but don't remember the details
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Post by Rita Witt on Mar 11, 2007 20:41:45 GMT -5
I noticed the use of "boad" mistake police and Wilentz used repeatedly earning them a three star dunce cap from the world of education. During my time in the University I studied German and used the digital programing style that has English speakers practice common words from English into German pronunciation using their dialect structure, and the word "boat" would be pronounced "boot" with a "D" ending sound.
From Theon Wright's Book, In Search of the Lindbergh Baby pg. 159 "Theo Bernsen, a European writer covering the Hauptmann Case, told Anthony Scaduto he had discussed the matter of Hauptmann's writing with an expert on translating English and German writing attached to the German Embassy in London. He showed his enlarged photographs, presumably the kidnap notes, and was told these were not written by a German who had been taught English, but by a man who thinks in English and is trying to write Germanic." "The grammatical errors show it clearly, the attempt to make a Germanic construction by a man who thinks in English. He particularly stressed the word "boad" which Osborn and others claimed was German. In German it is written with a "t"--boot--and is not possible a German just learning English would make that mistake."
Unlike most everyone else I don't believe there was a kidnap, and even the FBI-BOI kept there distance, going over even the ladder construction they didn't believe was either used or capable of the act. Governor Hoffmann didn't believe the story either, and had even an affidavit from Ellerson claiming that Elizabeth had been responsible whether an accident or intentional. We know from their stories that at least Anne and Bette were in the nursery at 7:30 that evening, but from a claimed kidnap in around 9pm being discovered at 10pm no fingerprints can be found, which in my book, and in BOI's book is what distanced them self from that story. If you studied law enforcement such evidence doesn't hold true for the investigator, and am mystified why it was believed by Bornman and Wilentz? There is also a feeble claim of mud marks in the room, but what did the imaginary kidnapper do carry in a handfull of mud to leave as confirmation he had been there, if these where the kidnappers footprints whey didn't he clean them up like he cleaned all the fingerprints from the nursery?
What if I told you the Mersman sales man looked more like CJ than Hauptmann, and he was questioned by the BOI-FBI on kidnap-bank robbery suspicion. I don't believe the case records show all the investigations, or that a lot of records were simply held in reserve pending a conviction to end the case. I think the government didn't believe the case as told either, and were investigating leads with a grain of salt added. This contributed to everyone having some hesitation on investigating further, believing any minute the true story would be divulged by family or employee. The only incidence of employee divulging a different story came from Ellerson to Governor Hoffmann, telling that he thought Elizabeth had killed Carley claiming he seen Charley dead in the drive with Elizabeth incoherent.
there are also so many disappearing features in this case that add even to the already suspicious lack of interest by investigators to examine the basic story. Missing fingerprints, Schipple's hidden green sedan, Pig Lady story, and to top it off Anne's reference to an accident and family hiding DNA evidence , can we believe any of the story, or were neighbors trying to help Lindbergh in some kind of difficulty?
All this and much more, the one month introduction to CJ extortion make the whole kidnap story seem a feeble attempt at a cover for something other than kidnap happening?
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Post by Bruceenged on Sept 24, 2019 5:43:54 GMT -5
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Post by Neume on Sept 30, 2019 9:52:26 GMT -5
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Post by KRNeume on Oct 4, 2019 19:15:58 GMT -5
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Post by Neume on Oct 12, 2019 18:51:36 GMT -5
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Post by ovitedelewugv on Oct 13, 2019 0:08:39 GMT -5
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Post by okojtaqa on Oct 13, 2019 2:29:06 GMT -5
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Post by akakeroqi on Oct 16, 2019 1:02:28 GMT -5
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Post by ikihoujolamu on Oct 17, 2019 9:11:27 GMT -5
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Post by izuyauco on Oct 25, 2019 3:37:57 GMT -5
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Post by Frankalelm on Oct 25, 2019 19:10:46 GMT -5
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Post by Scottreari on Oct 30, 2019 15:04:04 GMT -5
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Post by Nathanrap on Nov 10, 2019 11:41:39 GMT -5
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