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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 5, 2006 23:48:54 GMT -5
Did CAL come home earlier in that day, and was it for some reason he needed to keep hidden?
Was it impossible for the childs kidnap at the time claimed, or was the room cleaned of fingerprints in CAL's prescence?
If the child was sick, why was the blanket pinned to the pillow?
If the child was kidnapped, why was the ransom note in an envelope that CAL held un-oppened for hours?
Why was an occult symbol used to identify the kidnapper, as that is not standard procedure to identify kidnapper instead of the child?
Why did the ransom note have Mason Symbolism, and did the kidnapper know CAL was a Mason?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 6, 2006 6:07:13 GMT -5
Well, when Walsh wrote up his recollections in Nov 1932 maybe he thought it was just common knowledge that CAL was there earlier and back again. Its hard to believe everyone else missed it?
As a rule, the victims seldom clean a crime scene. Occasionally friends of victims unwittingly clean a crime scene? its always the guilty trying to avoid detection. Since noone admits to wiping the room clean well then its the crime scene and all of them are guilty to some degree. CAL could order a cleaning and their silence.
You are so right about the Occult Symbol and the holes are clearly wierd too. Mary Cerrita is the only Occult person we know and she later contacts Condon...so at first blush shes in. CAL could have fooled everyone into thinking there was actually a kidnap and had it all planned out inside his head (like a prank) early on. The holes raise the complexity of the ransom symbol by one order of magnitude and suggest two persons in collaboration..Fisch and Mary Cerrita are my first thought. Fisch as a German spy and Mary as the Occultist. AFter all they live right across from each other on the same street. Would they plan an extortion for $50K w/o a kidnap? how could that work? Would they in fact set up Wendel? Ellis Parker thought so?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 6, 2006 20:54:30 GMT -5
To Rick Good observation they are all guilty because none of them mention accidental clean up. I am trying to recall the date the Mersman table was sold as new, and if the table serial # was checked at the factory. Some furniture dealers have been known to re-sell new looking used furniture. When people close their house to move to Europe as Lindbergh's did they put furniture in storage, and very often furniture dealers buy storage items on termination of storage contract.
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anne50
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Post by anne50 on May 3, 2006 15:45:18 GMT -5
Rick and Rita, I wish I could remember the link in which I learned that weeks before the public "kidnapping" Lindbergh pretended to his wife that their son had been kidnapped. He let Anne agonize 20 minutes, thinking that their baby had been kidnapped before he, Lindbergh, produced little Charlie. Another one of his cruel jokes! This particular joke is enough to tell anyone that he already had "kidnap" on his mind. anne50
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kathy
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Post by kathy on May 3, 2006 22:18:43 GMT -5
Ana, thta is so true. that is the reason that betty gow assumed CAL had the babv and even said "don't fool me" the whole point of moving to the country was to be safe so why the lack of precautions?
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Post by Rita Witt on May 6, 2006 22:05:47 GMT -5
Do you think that practice kidnap could have been intentionaly planted in family history? If it was a deliberate story plant it could have been there for a future alibi, as no one would perform such a joke then actualy do it later. Would you believe that he would have duplicated a crime that was originaly played as a joke?
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mairi
Junior Member
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Post by mairi on Jul 19, 2006 17:15:26 GMT -5
Haven't been able to spot just when the Lindbergh's Hopewell house was first habitable, but had the impression it wasn't as long as a year. If it is true the kidnappers were planning the kidnap "for a year already", doesn't that rather suggest Englewood was where they had in mind? This being the case and the day of week being the "unusual" Tuesday, I have to still go back to the thought that that Tues was a very last minute change for the kidnappers and I still include in that thought , the three sections of ladder. Could they have already been headed for or even already in Englewood , call the house, ask for Lindberghs,(as a ruse) be told (possibly by Sharpe)"They're not here today. They're staying at Hopewell". Or if deliberate insider help is involved, then the change of location message travels that way. One of the suspicious cars in the Hopewell area seems there a fair time earlier than the kidnapping. Could that be a scouting out of the territory? If a certain date was planned and with what all that probably entailed, then I can see that maybe "What the hey, we're ready , let's give the other house a shot". Call me reaching for it, but I can't shake the possibility that Englewood may have been the original plan (and on that day). Also can't rule out that some insider help was at Hopewell.
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Post by rick62 on Jul 20, 2006 2:11:21 GMT -5
Hi Mairi: I think your theory is very plausible. I wish someone knew where Charlie slept in Next Day? Was it on a second floor? Was it accessible by ladder with 35 other servants? The only other explanation is that having 2 OR 3 sections made the ladder adaptable for differing heights? (or at least the red herring of such)
What makes me think about Next Day is the proximity to Englewood and the Junges. They provided Red Johnson an alibi for the nite of March 1st? They were from Hamburg and thus could have written the song on the Mersman Table. I am suspicious that the LKC ended the romance between Betty and Red. Doesnt add up now does it? I suppose they could have stumbled onto the hoax, but more than likely some of them were on the inside? Or found out later? Red had time to drive to Highfields before his spontaneous trip to New Haven CT. Maybe Charlie stopped in Englewood on his way out of towne? I also have the feeling that the blue-thread shirt was for travelling/
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mairi
Junior Member
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Post by mairi on Jul 20, 2006 16:14:37 GMT -5
Hey Rick~ I believe someone posted that the nursery at Englewood was on 4th floor and the number of occupants there. Am not sure either would necessarily be a kidnap block. Recall the fellow who got into Buckingham Palace and sat on the foot of The Queen's bed ;D. I'd venture the "whereabouts pattern" of those inside could be known, a 3 section ladder could reach a 3rd floor window and baby handed out or kidnappers go into 3rd floor window and continue on up to 4th for the child. Don't know if a 4 section homemade ladder would work. Of course I don't KNOW any of it at all , but the Englewood possibility still nags at me. I think I need someone to "draw me a picture" on what the kidnap and extortion being separate means. What with the "singnature" being there throughout, please enlighten this old girl
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Post by rick62 skeptic4 on Jul 20, 2006 22:35:03 GMT -5
Hi Mairi/ all I can think of is:
1. CAL and/or Englewood insider kidnap gang borrow Charlie? Charlie gets hurt and dies/gang1 drops out due to fear.
2. Mickey Rosner takes ransom note to the Bronx and passes it around fishing for takers.
3. External blackmail gang2 run by Fisch/Novositzky extorts the $50K from CAL thru Condon by copying symbols/
4. BRh is on tailend of Gang2.
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Post by Rita Witt on Jul 21, 2006 0:52:57 GMT -5
Hi Mairi, Rick Rick gave an example of how extortion was probably used in this case by taking over a crime already committed, but there are even types of extortion that work on just a threat alone. Another method that can even reflect on this case would be if Lindbergh accidently caused Charly's death and another party who knew would demand money for silence. Here is a site that explains different methods. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/extortion
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