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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 1, 2006 0:15:04 GMT -5
Was he just another curious case character or somone the police overlooked to protect CAL? Mr. Schippell said he borrowed several pieces of construction style ladders from the Skillman Village remodeling job, and that one was missing from his property some time before the kidnapping. The police compared the ladder pieces Schippell had to the kidnap ladder and declared them as different eliminating that lead in their opinion.
What I question is that in remodeling various material waste wood is used for different size construction ladders, and that one ladder piece used as a comparison to another like comparing apples to oranges. If the ladders were different pieces, and some may have been brought over from past construction sites, how do you know if it was not the exact ladder he claimed?
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Post by rick for rita on Apr 1, 2006 6:33:56 GMT -5
Hi Rita/ well, Charlie Shippell surely is a person of interest in the LKC for over one year. That alone tells you something--maybe that the cops were stumped? Why were they so stumped, because every lead ended in a dead end including Charlies trip to Mt Rose Hill? This is not any garden variety kidnapping or it would have been solved by now. Lots of local folks stopped by the guard house at Highfields to tell the cops that Shippell did it. He had a good alibi for 1 March 32/ he was in hospital in the Bronx or NYC. But he had some weird friends and relatives with TB that could have subbed in for him either way. BUT....Shippels shack on olde Hopewell-Princeton road (unpaved and still visible) was less than 1/4 mile from Charlies grave. Any rumors of a "double-digging" of the body got Shippell involved cause he was a little touched. If Charlie was buried twice then Charlie might be a good candidate since...he admitted something like that or was at least capable. He rented his farm and shack to a family named "Serito"from NYC in the summer of 1931. thats pretty darn close to Cerrita huh? Maybe its me thats touched? Koehler and Gaetano visited the Shippell shack in March 1933 but found no incriminating evidence in either his tools, planes, wood etc. And, Shippell had a green car under a tarp, perfect for delivering the ladder! Go figure, but Charlies still a person of interest just by location alone and his supposed grudge against CAL>
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where Charlie S was
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Post by where Charlie S was on Apr 1, 2006 8:37:04 GMT -5
what a coincidence that Charles S. was in the bronx the night of the kidnapping!
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Post by rick62 on Apr 1, 2006 13:23:47 GMT -5
yes you are right and in hospital as well? or as sick? Remember Ellis always said to check out persons that appear to have constructed an airtight alibi. Apparently, Shippell and wife and daughter Charlotte (11) lived in Hopewell from March to November and in the Bronx at like 236 88th street in the cold of winter? Shippell was paranoid and thought CAL was going to hurt is daughter Dotorthy (12)-- there are quite a few reports mentioning Shippell and he was brought back from NYC to his house in March 1932 and he stayed the rest of the year /
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Post by friends with TB on Apr 1, 2006 20:02:51 GMT -5
Could one of Schippels friends have been Fisch?
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Post by carol on Apr 1, 2006 22:10:26 GMT -5
Who knows? Fisch supposedly did have friends in the Sourland Mountains.
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 1, 2006 23:04:03 GMT -5
Schippell claimed to have borrowed construction ladder sections from the Skilman Village remodeling project. These ladder sections were of the same design as the kidnap ladder, and which he claimed was taken from him. The police later discounted the ladder as his, but if he had x number of pieces and some were missing, how could they be sure the missing ones were not the kidnap ladder? If the ladder was already easily accessable next door, the kidnapper or guilty party did not need to bring anything, and perhaps was already present as part of the household.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 2, 2006 12:19:19 GMT -5
All these questions are excellent! Hope we can find some answers and connect some dots:
1. Shippell is interviewed on May 17 1932...what took them so long?? anyway, He owns a 40 acre farm on Mt. Rose Glenmore Road, maybe Crusher Road now? His last job was chaeuffer. There is also a William Skillman who lives in downtowne Hopewell. His faterh was German, but he was borne in St.Paul Minnesota. Does CALs father live there? Yikes? 2. His uncle Bernard Shippell lives in the Bronx at 875 E. 188th street. 3. Shippell lives with his mother in law in NYC at 236 East 88th street. 4. Shippell claims he was not in hospital on 1 March but sick at home?? The VA hospital he attends is also in the Bronx. 5. His brother in law is Wilfred Fenton. His brother Bernard Shippell lives in Windham NY. and a step brother there too/ Frank Steiner. 6. a Mr. Fengler has keys to his shack in hopewell? 7. NJSP troopers are still visiting Shippells shack in December 1932? Shippell home at that time. 8. John Condon said Shippell was not CJ? 9. There were coded messages on a note in Shippells house saying he had dug up Charlie and reburied him? October 7th 1934? 10. More Baby clothes were found 1/2 mile from Shippels shack, but belonged to his daughters doll? 11. Shippell also claimed tthat many tools were stolen from his house by police. Saws, chisels, planes etc. 12. George Schneck said that Charlie died on March 5th but had been kept in Shippels Shack for 5 days. [he used a compass and penknife to determine this?] 13. Shippels car was a green Paige sedan w/ NYC plates. 14. A JJ Ferris said Shippell was crazy and stole the baby? William L. Fenton told him Shippell predicted that Charlie woudl be kidnapped soon? Fenton lived at 336 E. 86th street in NYC and is the one with TB? 15 Shippells mother-in-law was Bertha Klieman and lived at 236 E. 88th street NYC?
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Post by kathy for rick on Apr 3, 2006 5:45:02 GMT -5
two things i wonder about. did the "doll clothes" include diapers? and didn't parker claim that the person who wrote the notes was familiar with german although wasn't german more like 2nd generation?
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Post by rick62 on Apr 3, 2006 17:09:59 GMT -5
Kathy, I dont know about the diapers.....thats a wee bit too real for doll clothes? But J.J. Nosovitsky would be a good candidate for a 2nd generation Kraut due to his Jewish Soviet heritage? huh?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 4, 2006 0:23:42 GMT -5
If Schippell's plane is missing, could it be that later Schippell's plane becomes mixed in evidence room with Hauptman's plane? With all these legitimate points of interest and proximity it is strange he was completly cleare, because it is most likly the body was dumped by someone familiar to the area.
Wasn't there a woman also a neighbor that had cabins that claimed some New York types had rented cabins, and were observing Lindbergh's Place. This woman also lived with a doctor from the Skillman Village.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 4, 2006 5:31:53 GMT -5
Rita/ your first point is TRUE about the carpentry tool mixup. Shippell himself said that he felt that some of his stolen tools were in with BRHs tools at the NJSP but if someone were to take him to see the evidence he could tell which were his! "Statement of 14 Dec 1934" This suggests that the NJSP did not have enough evidence to arrest Shippell (or did not want to?) BUT may have wanted to use what they found against BRH/ even thats complicated. I dont know why the NJSP was still interviewing Shippell right before the Trial?
The woman that comes to mind in the second part, faintly, is the Pig Woman of the Sourland Mountains.
Rita/ should we still stick to the 5 miles radius for Charlies body even though its romantic to imagine he went to Connecticut.? Likely just the sleeping suite went to Connecticut?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 5, 2006 2:02:09 GMT -5
There doesn't have to be a mile limit on Charlie, because only the unidentified body was most likly a set up from whithin the family and dead body area. Placeing Charlie outside the area would likely mean he was alive in the other location, because they would not move or keep a dead body. If it was a real kidnap I wou;ld think he would have been moved far like Conneticcut, not the Bronx, and if he died would have been dumped in the ocean.
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Post by rick62private eye on Apr 6, 2006 5:34:17 GMT -5
Rita/ my own instincts really dont see Charlie alive anywhere--or not for long. But not down on Mt. Rose Hill right away either. Its truly beyond my understanding how Charlies spirit can keep returning to this world in the form of HRO, or Robert, or others. Like the tortured soul that cant rest? I am more intriqued by the guy who looked for Charlie in the furnace at Highfields. Some Federal labor inspector. There is not one scintilla/shred or iota of evidence that Charlie lived past 1 March 1932. In fact there isnt even much evidence that he live to that day? There may have been more to the phone call to Next Day Hill than we know. Does Anne suspect CAL? Does Anne suspect that BRH isnt guilty of the kidnap? CAL does everything within his power to gum up the works while at the same time making it all bigger and extended, more and more complicated and contrived. Who delivers the ladder, the note, and the chisel to CAL? The person spotted by Ben Lupica? Wheres Charlie going in his custom made blue thread t-shirt? There is even something a bit spooky about that in the overall scheme of things to come?
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Post by Rita Witt on Apr 6, 2006 21:09:46 GMT -5
It's a possibility that Charlie was dead from a Lindberh Special Prank earlier in the day or week, and they needed time and advice from gangland to complete the arrangements.
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Post by rick62 on Apr 9, 2006 12:27:42 GMT -5
Rita/ for the moment I am putting Pranks on the back burner. Yes, it is possible, but it seems like the entire Lindbergh team of Anne, Gow, Red, Ollie, and Elsie are clicking on all cylinders to "Save Charlie". News of a prank injury would leak out unless CAL covers up an iinjury with an epileptic siezure story?
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Post by Reyes on Feb 12, 2022 0:14:39 GMT -5
Charles Schippell dob 4-14-1888 dod 11-16-1948 NY Wed 1920 Charlotte Kleimann 1896-1966 (mother Bertha Kleimann) Daughter Charlotte born 1921. incriminating evidence: 1,)Bertha Burke father Frank Benjamin.2.)NJST Degaetano 3.)Frank Wilson 4.)neighbor Leo Rodweiller 5.)Kochler/Bornman inspect garage Schippell(Schopfel) 6.)George Schneck 7.)A J J Ferris 8.)neighbor Oscar Fengler 9.)neighbor Mrs Quinn 10,)Keaton 11.)Squire Johnson 12.)George Daws 13.)Ray Sanderson 14.)Charles Marne Maran,Joe Cerardi,(Enrico Carodi)Gerardi, aka Frank Jerome Sophie Cerardi bro Morris Rosenthal. ETC."Charlie missing 3-1-1932."Charlie found 5-12-1932 mount Rose Rd Hopewell -Princeton Rd.(close Schippell shack) analyze 1.)Diapers/ClothesOn May 16, 1932 Bornmann and DeGaetano Investigator Ray Sanderson, Hopewelllocal Clarence Hopf, and Sherman Altick, a reporter for TheNew York Sun. These men turned over a number of “baby’diapers, baby’s sleeping pads, two small baby’s shirts and baby’s nightgown” which they found near the entrance to Robert Buffett’s lane,(mtroseRd) located very near where the corpse hadbeen discovered.¹⁵⁹ The next day, Charles Schippell, who alsohad a place nearby, was interviewed and claimed these items had belonged to his “little daughter which she had outgrownand which he had discarded and dumped where they had been found.”analyze 2)Charlotte Schippell born 1921 was 11yr old in 1932.Charlotte Tonsility operation newspaper 1938.Later Charlotte Schippell college NewspaperNJ.(ancestry com)How could poor person afford it?
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