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Post by Rita Witt on May 26, 2006 23:37:02 GMT -5
Abraham Samuelson was the cabinet maker from the Bronx that made the ransom Box for Hauptmann. He also cut the wood for the ladder for Hauptmann that was used in the kidnap.
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Post by rick62 on May 27, 2006 4:45:43 GMT -5
Hi Rita/ this is a rather fascinating story, not unlike the rest of the LKC. "Truth is stranger than fiction"?
Part I: The story goes something like this: on February 27th 1932 BRH and a woman are supposed to be entering Abraham Samuelsons shop. He lives one mile from Condon and one mile from BRH in the Bronx. On the face of it...to order the ladder wood. Firstly, this is very late in the month since Feb is a short month even in a leap year...so....that makes it..hmm...Why Saturday. right? Now whos the lady...could be somebodys wife/ Gerta, or .....Lena Aldinger? Who knows? Violet Sharpe?
Second...two men come back to pick up the lumber...but what day is that? Not Sunday...so it must be Monday? Now, this really blows the Rail 16 story doesnt it--the VDers wont like that. Ah but who are the men? Well, friends of BRhs we presume? Who are BRHs friends if we eliminate Fisch because "he doesnt know them in Feb '32"? Carl Henkel, Otto Wollenbuerg, Hans Kloppenberg? Frank or Fritz Taldsdorf? Hans Mueller, Annas nieces husband?
Now, if any 2 men at all really come back to pick up the lumber then that pretty much blows The Lone Wolf Theory now doesnt it? Also, there doesnt seem to be any big hurry? BRH could have gone to a lumber yard like National just as easily now couldnt he? And he could have gone alone for secrecy now couldnt he? Does BRH want to deal with Abraham because he is Jewish or because he knows Condon (see Part II)
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Post by rick62 on May 27, 2006 5:15:06 GMT -5
Part II. Now, for those of you still following...Part II preceeds Part I:
Right smack in the middle of the kidnapping, when Condon/Jafsie is negotiating for Charlies "safe return" (wink), the ransom note writer asks for the money to be fixed into a "packet"..5 X 7 x 14" or close...all $70K. So Condon, for whatever reason we will never know or understand, decides that the snatchers want to receive the money in a "WOODEN BOX"? To me this has always seemed rather insane? But Jafsie cooks up this whole mess as he goes along? So Jafsie decides (?) to have the box made by a cabinet maker and says it will be totally unigue to identify the kidnappers, and it will be made out of 5 rare woods? AND--if thats not enuf it will be made exactly like the Olde Antique BAllot Box on Condons desk upstairs in his house? Do You Beleive any of This? DYBT?
So, Jafsie takes the job to Frank Perimi--but Frank wants $3.50 cents? So....heres where Abraham Samuelson enters the picture...he gets the job for $3.00 bucks. BUT..hold onto your hats because Condon and AS have known each other for years!! OK...this is in late March 1932. This job, not unlike the ladder wood, takes 2-3 days. CAL kneels on the box, trying to jam all the money in and "breaks" it? Condon and CAL take the box to ST. Raymonds but CJ, apparently, doesnt want the Box or the extra $20K??? So JFC throws the Box into the bushes and retrieves it later on? DYBT?
Later on, maybe 1934, years later, someone asks Condon who made the wooden box??? So right off the bat he lies and says "Frank Peremi" the cabinet maker. The agent or cop tries to find him out but cant. But for some reason, Frank Peremi was dead in 1932 so the cops get suspicious? This is where Abraham Samuelson "comes forward of his own volition" to straighten out the case? The cops take Condon over to Abrahams shop and Condon says "Oh yes, Abraham made the box for $3 bucks". What a great memory. DYBT???
Now, it is also reported that AS saw and identified BRH 3 times as the man who came into his shop to order the ladder wood. But he feared coming forwanrd in 1932 because of his family even though he recognized the wood of the ladder in photos immediately?
Now is it only a coincidence that BRH orders the ladder wood in Feb 1932 and two weeks later Condon orders the wooden box (that we dont need) in March 1932 totally by accident from the same cabinet maker? Only God know how many cabinet makers there were in 1932 in the Bronx? DYBT?
Samuelson was NOT called to testify at the Trial of the Century. His story gets 4 pages in Gardners book, but Lloyd mixes up the two cabinet makers by accident (?) and calls them Frank Samuelson. Likely, AS would have blown the top off both the prosecution and the defense case in one fell swoop. So he was buried by AG Wilintz.
Any questions? Like who picks up the ladder wood for instance? And does Condon know BRH before 1 March 32?
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anne50
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Post by anne50 on May 27, 2006 7:10:49 GMT -5
Rick, your points are very interesting. Why would Condon and Hauptmann purchase wood within a small range of time from the same cabinetmaker, Samuelson? Sheer coincidence---I doubt that. Of course these two characters, JFC and BRH know each other! How can they not? A case as convoluted as this one cannot be supported by a Lone Wolf Theory. Too many characters come into play for one player to concoct the disappearance of one child. The house itself is so big how could one man cover so much ground, unless there was an inside job. Whether or not there was an inside job no man can cover so much ground, literally or figuratively. anne50
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Post by rick62 on May 27, 2006 13:04:05 GMT -5
yes Anna/ you are correct. The Lone Wolf Theory could only be sustained in a controlled and partially closed Courtroom in Flemington for 5 weeks in 1935! And only by lies and subtrifuge.
I quess we could start guessing who BRHs lady friend might be:
Anna Hauptmann/ Betty Gow/ Violet Sharpe/ Gerta Henkel/ Lena Aldinger/ Fischs mystery girlfriend?
And who are the two conspirators picking up the wood:
Fisch/ Schleser/ DiGrasi/ Firtiz Tolksdorf/ Ollie Whateley/ Banks/Ellerson/ Hans Kloppenberg/ Otto Wollenberg/ Ralph Hacker?
Footnotes: 1. the wooden ransom box made by Samuelson is nearly the samesize as the "shoebox" in BRHs closet. 2. The agent who discovers Samuelson is BI Thomas H. Sisk in September 1933. 3. Condon says the cost of the ladder wood was $14.00?
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Post by Rita Witt on May 27, 2006 16:29:10 GMT -5
Hi Anne, Rick This new information has caused many new possibilities and changes in the case, but I think it shows a new gang size blowing the 50k lone wolf, and places the case into CAL caused or a political caused case. There is evidence of CAL's abuse, but there is also the heated political division between CAL, his Congressman Father, and Roosevelt's bootleg friends.
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Post by rick62 on May 27, 2006 18:20:22 GMT -5
Well Rita, Abraham cuts both ways. Apparently, BRH did not want to ask for him as a witness to prove he was totally innocent. Neither did Anna? this story has been buried for 75 years. Apparently, AGent Sisk would also know who was with BRH, and who picked up the wood. So if nothing else it further prooves the coverup on both the Prosecution and Defense working together to block the Truth. Only National Security or CAL would be high enuf priority to coverup the LKC. Sadly, this doesnt yet solve the case.
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 27, 2006 18:49:10 GMT -5
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Post by Rita Witt on May 28, 2006 0:18:03 GMT -5
Here is a scenario that might explain the phony court case. I CAL was putting a dent into Kennedy bootleg, and they needed a neat stopper on CAL by contracting kidnappers who used inside help they put CAL in the hot seat. It would explain why he fumbled with the case going to Rosner, and also explain why he had to work with Condon an obvious go between or kidnappers apprentice. At the trial itself Wilentz could even tell CAL if he doesn't play ball, they could always turn the very same evidence against him, and from the film I saw of CAL at court he appeared to be squirming in his seat. The inside work at Hopewell was intended to set up CAL as the culprit, the fingerprint wipe and the unbelievable ladder.
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Post by rick3 skeptic4 on May 28, 2006 6:35:34 GMT -5
Hi Rita/ well the only reason there is a phony court case is because BRH is stupid enuf to buy gas with Lindbergh Ransom Money? Apparently, noone was supposed to get caught in this entire caper. Whoops, everyone gets away clean.
When you think about it(?). its equally not too bright for BRH to go buy wood from Samuelsohn either. If it werent for some odd quirk of fate BRH might have been arrested in March 32 before the negotiations with CJ were completed? Samuelsohn claims to be able to recognize his own wood from newspaper photos? That doesnt sound very credible either. Samuelsohn sees the ladder used to kidnap the baby of the World and makes no attempt to help the cops. DYBT? Samuelsohn may have felt threatened sure/ but maybe he could have informed someone anonymousely? "Go check out the carpenter who bought the wood"? Hes the perp?
And, here we go again on one of Condons wild goose chases? What the heck was Condon thinking when he orders the ransom box from an olde friend who sold the ladder to BRH for $14 bucks. Condon is crazy like a fox? The fact that he avoided getting arrested proves that. Jafsie only mixes up and lies about what he wants not what he doesnt want? Condon and Samuelson share one characteristic as "olde friends" they can keep secrets.
Correction from NYTimes: BRH first comes into Samuelsohns shop on 20 Feb and the ladder gets picked up 27 Feb one week later. I suppose thats why the sales slips dated by the ladder, oops, latter.
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 28, 2006 18:59:38 GMT -5
How was it that Agent Sisk turned his attention to Mr Samuelson's place of business? And was it more than once? Dates? In what form did AG Sisk report this and why not publicly, (before BRh was executed)? I, too, have some question as to how AS was able to recognize his wood from newspaper pictures. Had he cut the notches in the rails into which the rungs fit? What was it that could have been so identifying from news photo? Being mindful of erring being human, could he have mixed the BRH of Feb20 with subsequent visits he (BRH) did (or may have) make there? As one can see, I'm scrambled.
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Post by rick62 on May 28, 2006 20:57:00 GMT -5
Hi Mairi/ yikes these are hard questions until such time as the Grand Poobah of Files answeres them. Ill try to make up answers:
1. i think that Condon was the Prime Suspect or Person of Interest from 12 May 1932 until 19 September 1934. how Condon ever convinced BRH that the "coast was now clear" and he should go out and spent Fischs Gold Certs "willy nilly" we will never know? Clever fellow huh?
2. As such, the BOI was checking into each and every one of Condons Tall Tales. In the process they discover that his first choice for boxmaker Frank Perimi was "dead" in 1932. Thus, Agents Sisk and Manning must have located Samuelsohn in the nighborhood by good olde fashioned detective work/
3. They take Condon over to meet Samuelsohn (or vice verca) and they realize that the two are olde friends. Apparently this is in Sept 1933/ one whole year before BRH is found.
4 After that it gets foggy for about one year until BRh is arrested. Then, apparently he i-ds BRh 3 times...we dont yet know the dates but the time frame is small...Oct 1st 1934.to Jan 1st 1935/
5. So the biggest question is: if in fact he does ID BRH 3 times...then WHY OH WHY isnt he called as a witness. because it proves framing and fraud by Bornmann and Koehler of course! Wake up and smell the potatoes. In fact, how is the ID by Abraham kept secret? Good to know?
4. Well thats a good point/ did Samuelson cut the notches and the rungs thus guessing (?) that he was building a ladder only 3 days before the Lindbergh kidnap? He recognized the entire item!
5. Sure, Samuelson could have been wrong or could have been challenged BUT...3 IDs should do it? Check and Mate.
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Post by rick62 on May 28, 2006 22:16:34 GMT -5
Hi/ everybody should take a few minutes and go over and read Susan Candys post about her grandfather Abraham on MMs board! Its very warm and heartfelt/rg
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 29, 2006 14:41:37 GMT -5
Happy Mem-day to everyone. Is anyone out having picnics? Do we know yet how AS made his ID's of BRH? Was it a line-up or was it from a newspaper photo? I read that the FBI (and I think I understand they didn't have jurisdiction) told him to keep quiet~~but WHY? Were the NJSP in on this and also squashed it? There is something dreadfully PECULIAR about this (or is it mairi who's peculiar?). If the ID's were in the Oct 1st-Jan1st time frame would that $@#&%^ Wilence have had his case all tightly firmed up with AK, by then? I don't necessarily see BRH as the builder or climber of the ladder, especially if others came later to pick up the wood. And why would BRH come back twice (would like to know the dates of that) to AS's shop on other carpenter business? I don't buy into it's being to see if he could glean whether AS had connected him to the photos of the ladder. Could we review who (the other 2 men?) it was that said something was wrong with the job AS had done? I can't find it.
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 29, 2006 14:44:36 GMT -5
Happy Mem-day to everyone. Is anyone out having picnics? Do we know yet how AS made his ID's of BRH? Was it a line-up or was it from a newspaper photo? I read that the FBI (and I think I understand they didn't have jurisdiction) told him to keep quiet~~but WHY? Were the NJSP in on this and also squashed it? There is something dreadfully PECULIAR about this (or is it mairi who's peculiar?). If the ID's were in the Oct 1st-Jan1st time frame would that $@#&%^ Wilence have had his case all tightly firmed up with AK, by then? I don't necessarily see BRH as the builder or climber of the ladder, especially if others came later to pick up the wood. And why would BRH come back twice (would like to know the dates of that) to AS's shop on other carpenter business? I don't buy into it's being to see if he could glean whether AS had connected him to the photos of the ladder. Could we review which (the other 2 men?) it was that said something was wrong with the job AS had done? I can't find it.
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 29, 2006 14:52:16 GMT -5
Please forgive me for the double post. I don't know how that happened( ??)
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Post by Rita Witt on May 29, 2006 21:44:02 GMT -5
To Mairi, Rick Just because Hauptmann left the order does not mean he had anything to do with the kidnap. Fish or or even Violet could have wanted Hauptmann's advice on building a ladder only. Wilentz had a frame schem going on Hauptmann who it seems they already new was to be the patsy from day one.
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anne50
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Post by anne50 on May 30, 2006 6:35:50 GMT -5
Rita, I still wonder how anyone could have hated Hauptmann so much as to pre-patsy him out? What kind of friend was Isador Fisch to allow such activity against Hauptmann? anne50
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Post by rick62 on May 30, 2006 11:45:42 GMT -5
Anne & Mairi~noone really has to hate anyone so much as to set them up as a Patsy. All you have to want or do is to "not want to get caught your own self" so you make certain you have an airtight alibi and then make certain someone else will take the Fall.
As for BRH coming back to Samuelsohn's shop twice.....well just put yourself in AS's shoes:
1. You sell the ladder wood to BRH and his buddies
2. You see the ladder on the news in the Lindbergh kidnap
3. you are terrified when Charlie appears to turn up dead! Maybe that you will be named as a co-murderer?
4. The perp comes back into your store ....not once but twice in May and June 1934!
5. You as AS, are terrified whether or not BRH says one word. Hes checking to see if you recognize him and associate him with the ladder...right....non-verbal communication. Yikes!
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Post by Rita Witt on May 30, 2006 20:57:40 GMT -5
To All I think the new information is giving us a clearer picture of the degree of coercion that Wilentz was able to use on his courtroom victims (even CAL), and I think that Wilentz would not have been able to corrupt this case so completely without the blessing of the political machine that controlled the White House.
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 30, 2006 23:04:16 GMT -5
Oh My!~The more I read of this the confused er I become! 1) IS the AS wood the kidnap ladder or is it NOT ? 2) Did AS ID the ladder from news photo and then in essence un- ID it when he saw it first hand ? 3) Did the purported sketch brought in to AS come in with "BRH" or later with the other 2 men? 4) Did JFC go to AS himself to have the box of "many woods" made? ( to ID the kidnappers.......Oh good grief!) Now I'm going into LA-LA land. Please bear with me if you are able JFC/AS purportedly long time friends. JFC goes into As's shop (to have the box made or whatever). AS confides in his friend that he knows who built the Lindberg kidnap ladder. Now JFC, who may be on the verge of paying CJ, says " Oh no no , my friend -you must keep quiet. It could be dangerous- you could be killed!". (and FBI warns AS to keep quiet, too). And friend or not JFC is determined to be THE Hero. Of course I can't know this happened. Recall JFC telling BRH in jail, something like "They'll kill me!" Myra, while they are in Panama steers an interviewer away from the Samuelsohn connection. Many frightened people. What are we to make of all this! And how does one know how to "peel away the layers"?
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 31, 2006 15:16:28 GMT -5
Hi All~ Somewhere (I can't recall) there was ref to BRH ordering wood from AS to build (kitchen?) cabinets at his home, (also another time, for some smaller order) Of the three known BRH/AS contacts, am just wondering, which order was for what project. Am also wondering if the 1st order was for a contract job of BRH's. Seems like many mismatches going on here.
Mouse!~ You are back! You'd just better get on here and talk to us more. Beam ye in , Lass!
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Post by Mouse for Mairi on May 31, 2006 16:02:42 GMT -5
Mouse!~ You are back! You'd just better get on here and talk to us more. Beam ye in , Lass! LOL! I've been here - just silent. It's better that way - I get myself in too much trouble. Am I the only one that thinks it really odd that a carpenter would need to go to someone else to have things made with wood? Can someone explain to me if there's a difference between what the two men did?
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Post by Rita Witt on May 31, 2006 17:59:37 GMT -5
Hi Mouse There are diferences in general, as a carpenter uses table saws, air nailers, for rough house finishing, and the cabinet maker has very accurate table saw that has draftsman like adjustments, scroll saws, and edge joiners. I think it would be easy for a carpenter to adjust to cabinet work and think Hauptmann was correct in demeaning the ladder construction. I think any carpenter would have known better than use 1 by 4 inch rails for a ladder, and a simple ladder could have been made by either tradesman.
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Post by rick3 Detective4 on May 31, 2006 18:47:51 GMT -5
Hi Mouse/ see that, right offen the bat you made a missed spoke/forgiven.
Well, you arnt the only one. Even kevcon sees a big problemo with that?
Susan Candy seems very sweet and bright/ pun-intendo/ and she loves her Grandpa very much...and thats a bad combination for objectivity?
In order to have one nano-gram of objectivity over the time she is writing Samuels memoirs she had better come up with a time-line and some credible names for the two young men picking up the wood.
If she cant, then, it will look much like an extra specieal act of the Prosecution to frame BRH even further just in case something falls thru on the first act? Her Grandpa knowing Condon cant really help her cause much since hes never told the same tall tale twice, nor Id-ed the same perp twice? He lost Charlie for $50K? Not such a good character reference? Only CALs free pass saves his butt.
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Post by Rita Witt on May 31, 2006 20:30:16 GMT -5
I think you need to realize that this case has been tampered with adjusted and readjusted by White House Political Influence ever since day one. While communicating with Susan at 1:45am a well dressed figure was observed on close circuit TV knocked on my door once and went back to a Lincoln and drove away. I took it a threat as no one in their right mind would get out of any car at 1:45am in my neighborhood without a gun. By the way guys I can't tell you which. but at least one forum has the all seeing NSA watching, and did check numerous message ID's guess when?
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Post by mouse on May 31, 2006 20:40:00 GMT -5
No Mouse , it's not better if you stay ! I liked your point as to why one carpenter has to go to another carpenter. Seems like a carpenter could just go to a lumber yard, take the wood somewhere and saw and hammer to his heart's content! Especially if he wanted to make a weirdo, warpo thingy that only half resembles a ladder. He could have wood sawed a certain way at a lumber yard, couldn't he? Now I can see someone like that old fool JFC going to AS to have his "box of many woods" made, (seeing as how his forte was only "constructing" tall tales).
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 31, 2006 20:51:50 GMT -5
Sorry Mouse~~~I had you posting to yourself and didn't know how to correct it!! It was from Mairi, Mairi, quite contrary. Have been on this "puter too-oo-oo long!
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mairi
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Post by mairi on May 31, 2006 20:59:53 GMT -5
Rita~ When? Yikes!!
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Post by Rita Witt on May 31, 2006 21:33:42 GMT -5
When recieving the e-mail address from Susan the screen message changed to my home address and back came the e-mail.
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